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	<title>Comments on: Jesus and “God” &#8211; Part 10 &#8211; What is worship? (Dale)</title>
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	<description>theories about the father, son, and holy spirit</description>
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		<title>By: trinities - Jesus and “god” &#8211; part 11 &#8211; Review and Conclusion (Dale)</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-92396</link>
		<dc:creator>trinities - Jesus and “god” &#8211; part 11 &#8211; Review and Conclusion (Dale)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 13:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-92396</guid>
		<description>[...] part 10: there&#8217;s another familiar argument for Jesus being divine. Only God is rightly worshiped, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] part 10: there&#8217;s another familiar argument for Jesus being divine. Only God is rightly worshiped, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89706</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89706</guid>
		<description>I suppose one&#039;s spirituality is key here; that is-- one&#039;s spiritual practices? By that I don&#039;t mean mere bodily postures, etc., but an intentionality and volition that supervenes over bodily postures. I suppose if one&#039;s knowing that God is the most desirable thing (and so to be loved) and by that is not motivated to worship God, then what is required are divine commands. God commands us to love him. So, if the &#039;aesthetic&#039; (or something like that) fact doesn&#039;t motivate, then being commanded to do so is what comes next. 

I suppose though if it is a situation where a person knows God is the most lovable thing, and wants to love God, but just fails to produce the volition to do so, then the person should attempt some baby steps to &#039;get there&#039;. Baby steps = participate in liturgy, daily office, various prayer techniques. If we are creatures that imitate what we see/hear, then doing things that &#039;imitate&#039; worshiping God might lead us to actually worshiping God.

I&#039;m sure Moral theologians have a list of possible vices here that could identify &#039;the one who knows, knows what is best, but chooses the more deplorable path&#039; (that&#039;s Ovid).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose one&#8217;s spirituality is key here; that is&#8211; one&#8217;s spiritual practices? By that I don&#8217;t mean mere bodily postures, etc., but an intentionality and volition that supervenes over bodily postures. I suppose if one&#8217;s knowing that God is the most desirable thing (and so to be loved) and by that is not motivated to worship God, then what is required are divine commands. God commands us to love him. So, if the &#8216;aesthetic&#8217; (or something like that) fact doesn&#8217;t motivate, then being commanded to do so is what comes next. </p>
<p>I suppose though if it is a situation where a person knows God is the most lovable thing, and wants to love God, but just fails to produce the volition to do so, then the person should attempt some baby steps to &#8216;get there&#8217;. Baby steps = participate in liturgy, daily office, various prayer techniques. If we are creatures that imitate what we see/hear, then doing things that &#8216;imitate&#8217; worshiping God might lead us to actually worshiping God.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Moral theologians have a list of possible vices here that could identify &#8216;the one who knows, knows what is best, but chooses the more deplorable path&#8217; (that&#8217;s Ovid).</p>
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		<title>By: JT Paasch</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89660</link>
		<dc:creator>JT Paasch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89660</guid>
		<description>I think you were getting my point. I was just curious about how the kind of worship-inducing knowledge of God would be different from abstract/detached/academic (I can&#039;t seem to come up with the right label) knowledge of God. 

(Though, I suppose some might say that &lt;em&gt;true&lt;/em&gt; &#039;academic&#039; knowledge of God is always worship-inducing, but I&#039;m not necessarily inclined to agree with that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you were getting my point. I was just curious about how the kind of worship-inducing knowledge of God would be different from abstract/detached/academic (I can&#8217;t seem to come up with the right label) knowledge of God. </p>
<p>(Though, I suppose some might say that <em>true</em> &#8216;academic&#8217; knowledge of God is always worship-inducing, but I&#8217;m not necessarily inclined to agree with that.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89658</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89658</guid>
		<description>Hi JT - 

I&#039;m not sure worshipful feelings are required for being in a worshipful state. I&#039;m thinking of it as kind of an inner bowing... it&#039;s akin to generic humility, but this is to an object, and for one or more reasons. One may wonder why I&#039;m calling this &quot;worship&quot; and not, say, bowing, singing, or doing something specifically religious, such as some liturgical activity. The reason is in the NT, Paul teaches that one&#039;s who life is to be an act of worship. I take it he means that we go about our lives with this mental stance, and that we do our many actions as (in part) an expression of it. That is the way God wants to be worshipped, in the NT.

But perhaps I&#039;ve missed your point - do continue...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi JT &#8211; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure worshipful feelings are required for being in a worshipful state. I&#8217;m thinking of it as kind of an inner bowing&#8230; it&#8217;s akin to generic humility, but this is to an object, and for one or more reasons. One may wonder why I&#8217;m calling this &#8220;worship&#8221; and not, say, bowing, singing, or doing something specifically religious, such as some liturgical activity. The reason is in the NT, Paul teaches that one&#8217;s who life is to be an act of worship. I take it he means that we go about our lives with this mental stance, and that we do our many actions as (in part) an expression of it. That is the way God wants to be worshipped, in the NT.</p>
<p>But perhaps I&#8217;ve missed your point &#8211; do continue&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JT Paasch</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89657</link>
		<dc:creator>JT Paasch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89657</guid>
		<description>Suppose someone has knowledge of who/what God is, and so their &#039;beliefs&#039; are true, but suppose also that those beliefs don&#039;t put them in a &#039;worshipful&#039; state of mind, so to speak (i.e., those beliefs don&#039;t particularly motivate them to worship or anything like that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose someone has knowledge of who/what God is, and so their &#8216;beliefs&#8217; are true, but suppose also that those beliefs don&#8217;t put them in a &#8216;worshipful&#8217; state of mind, so to speak (i.e., those beliefs don&#8217;t particularly motivate them to worship or anything like that).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89655</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89655</guid>
		<description>Hi Scott,

Excellent question. I&#039;m thinking of what goes in the third place (other than worshipper and object of worship) as a reason, i.e. a belief about the object, had by the worshipper. So, you can worship God for multiple reasons, even if divine simplicity is true - it&#039;s just what makes all these various beliefs of yours true - e.g. that God is good, powerful, everlasting, etc. - are all the same thing - God. 

States of worship - the mental stance - will be fitting or not depending on the beliefs and the object, and even sometimes on how they relate to the worshipper. 

So if you worship Jim Carrey as the creator, that&#039;s unfitting, because he isn&#039;t your creator. And if you worship your ancestor as the bestower of your good fortune, again, he ain&#039;t, so that&#039;s an unfitting act of worship. Or if you honor St. Jude because your prayer was answered... you get the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Scott,</p>
<p>Excellent question. I&#8217;m thinking of what goes in the third place (other than worshipper and object of worship) as a reason, i.e. a belief about the object, had by the worshipper. So, you can worship God for multiple reasons, even if divine simplicity is true &#8211; it&#8217;s just what makes all these various beliefs of yours true &#8211; e.g. that God is good, powerful, everlasting, etc. &#8211; are all the same thing &#8211; God. </p>
<p>States of worship &#8211; the mental stance &#8211; will be fitting or not depending on the beliefs and the object, and even sometimes on how they relate to the worshipper. </p>
<p>So if you worship Jim Carrey as the creator, that&#8217;s unfitting, because he isn&#8217;t your creator. And if you worship your ancestor as the bestower of your good fortune, again, he ain&#8217;t, so that&#8217;s an unfitting act of worship. Or if you honor St. Jude because your prayer was answered&#8230; you get the idea.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89654</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89654</guid>
		<description>One issue that arises from the proposed &#039;3-place&#039; relation is one&#039;s take on divine simplicity. Do I &#039;worship&#039; God b/c he has love? Or for some other reason; I think Scotus argues that God is the most lovable object and should be loved no matter what (or again, God must be loved in every possible world). One of the interesting bits is the &#039;reason why&#039;-- is this something somehow distinct from God?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One issue that arises from the proposed &#8217;3-place&#8217; relation is one&#8217;s take on divine simplicity. Do I &#8216;worship&#8217; God b/c he has love? Or for some other reason; I think Scotus argues that God is the most lovable object and should be loved no matter what (or again, God must be loved in every possible world). One of the interesting bits is the &#8216;reason why&#8217;&#8211; is this something somehow distinct from God?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: trinities - Jesus and “God” - Part 8 - What is monotheism? (Dale)</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/563/comment-page-1#comment-89653</link>
		<dc:creator>trinities - Jesus and “God” - Part 8 - What is monotheism? (Dale)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=563#comment-89653</guid>
		<description>[...] Next time: what is worship? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Next time: what is worship? [...]</p>
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